Racist Casting - Upcoming Movie About MIT Blackjack Team

Submitted by visitors on Fri, 01/02/2009 - 21:03

Vinh Hua (New School) replied to 's poston 21 March 2008 at 08:30

a) that's the point though elton... the search for validation outside of your own community is futile at best, self-aggrandizing at worst...and even within your own community, the search for validation is problematic.

Unless you're doing something sexy like Aids in Africa, grass roots activism is one hell of a thankless job by its very definitions... which is why everyone should be going to their local Community Development Corporations, Community Based Organizations and other nonprofits that advocate for and your help communities and kiss them all for the amazing amount of work they do for low pay and with shit in the way of resources.

That's points a.

b) it's never been about necessarily being nice to each other, but it is about building an idea of a community... which is the what we should be doing as a group, especially as most of us are second generation asian-ams. in alot of ways, we're cutting edge in creating an asian am consciousness, as we've lived and grown up in that unique discursive space. we need to build that understanding of our interconnectedness and that sense of community, we need to reappropiate the imposed term 'asian american' and do so in such a way that is inclusive and that allows for mutual support across the board. my conception of community has always been one of family... my community IS my extended family, which is why if you ask anyone who knows me, i'm completely open to everyone, i build relationships with everyone i meet. and which is why i care about feminist and glbtq issues, even disregarding my inherent social responsibility to care about them as an active and engaged citizen, because they are issues affecting people i consider family, and just like you don't ignore your auntie's problems or your cousin's problems, i can't ignore those in favor of my own.

c) we have avenues to express anger... hell, at least 3/4ths of the spoken word i've heard from asian ams is about expressing anger at the 'model minority' status and the issues thereof. and the funny part about this is that i actively avoid student events where oppression poetry is going to be the soup du jour, so even hardcore accredited poets express anger at oppression. there's media outlets, there's protests... and most importantly, there's constructive arenas such as CDCs and CBOs in which to express this anger by doing work, by being constructive, which leads into my next point.

d) shit's about building. you can get angry and try to rip shit down all day. i can honestly tell you, you might even see some results and validation from the mainstream... but it'll never last. ripping shit down is impressive and visceral, but it's long term unconstructive. bao pheezy is one of the angriest poets out there, and he'll tell you any day of the week, that at the bottom of it all, it's about building, it's about building each other up and our communities up, and not about ripping shit down. get angry sure, but use that anger as fuel to build.

e) and shit son, i ignore hella people when i don't feel like there's constructive work to be done. haven't you noticed me NOT yelling at alvin? :-P

and much love to all those who sent love. all props go to boston progress crew for raising their little brother right.

It sounds like they didn't audition all races, they knew which White lead they would cast...
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V128/N14/sturgess.html

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TT: What drew you to the movie?

Jim Sturgess: The story, I think. I was kind of approached. I was shooting another film called “The Other Boleyn Girl” at the time, and I just got a call saying that Robert Luketic, the director, wanted to meet me about this film that he’s making … I guess the idea of these kind of everyday people just going against the system like that and coming out on top, which is always a nice take on life. It was just a feel good movie that was exciting to read as a script and I think exciting to watch as a film. And I got to go to Vegas. And I got to wear designer suits which I had never worn before.

Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon 21 March 2008 at 11:44
A woman named kelly lei just posted this on the boycott 21 group:
[even Mickey Rosa is supposed to be asian... his real name is actually John Chang.http://mickeyrosa.com/]

John Derrick Yao replied to Alvin's poston 21 March 2008 at 15:07
they started deleting posts again. This is starting to get very serious now. We need everyones help now.

John Derrick Yao replied to John's poston 21 March 2008 at 15:32
PLEASE READ WHAT JOHN CHANG WROTE BEFORE ITS DELETED:
http://mickeyrosa.com/

My name is John Chang. I am the basis for Ben Mezrich’s characters Mickey Rosa (from Bringing Down the House) and Victor Cassius (from Busting Vegas). Kevin Spacey plays Mickey Rosa in the 21 movie, premiering March 28, 2008.

You might wonder, are the books true? Put yourself in Mezrich’s place. He wants to sell books. If he makes up a few lurid details, well, who’s going to object? So, let’s beat up one of the players. In fact, let’s make him swallow a chip. Yeah. Oh, and let’s hire a stripper to cash out for us. Then “interviews” with strippers become “business expenses”. And if the technical details are a little fuzzy, who cares? No one is going to know the difference.

How about the 21 trailer? How accurate is that? Ben Campbell — good characterization. Being introduced to the team was something like that for at least some players. Professor Rosa, on the other hand, would be a fish out of water at MIT. And Laurence Fishburne’s character is wholly invented. No one ever got beat up in some boiler room in the bowels of the casino, and Griffin agents do not know how to count cards. The stuff at the end about how it all goes wrong is wildly off.

Maybe some former teammates or colleagues will contribute their viewpoints or analyses at one point or another. In the meantime, what questions do you have? Which stories in the books do you find the most interesting? The most unbelievable? What technical details do you care about or question?

John Estrada (Fairfield) replied to John's poston 22 March 2008 at 00:27
I just posted the following heartfelt comment on the fan page. in case it's deleted, I'm posting it here:

Please allow me to explain why the casting of this film depresses me. As a newly-minted dad, I owe it to my children to do everything I can to make sure that their social well-being remains intact.

When I was growing up in the 1980s, the only portrayals of Asian men were Long Duk Dong in Sixteen Candles, Toshiro Takashi in Revenge of the Nerds, Nogata from Police Academy, and Data from the Goonies. None of them were smooth, none of them were suave, and none of them were sexy. None of them could be considered American and none of them were people that I nor my peers could relate to.

Then along comes a movie based on the story of a bunch of smooth, suave, and sexy Asian-American men. These are men that I can relate to. This was the perfect opportunity to show us as we really are, and what do the producers do? They re-cast the lead characters as white men!!!

As a proud Asian-American father, I want to make sure that my children see themselves as they truly are, multifaceted, three-dimensional human beings who experience the same joys and sorrows as every other red-blooded American. I want their non-Asian peers to see them as people that they can relate to, and not as perpetual foreigners in the land of their birth.

But eight years into the 21st Century, and the perennial lack of positive portrayals of Asians still results in negative implicit associations with people of Asian descent, even among Asians themselves. Such negative associations with Asians continue to perpetuate behavior () and violence http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/02/29/2008-02-29_student_c...http://www.petitiononline.com/mtahate1/petition.html against Asians.

Where do they learn this behavior? Science has shown that the psychosocial causes of bigotry and genocide are rooted in the process of moral exclusion.

In the article "What Makes Us Moral" in the December 3, 2007 issue of Time magazine, an adolescent was quoted as saying, "I wouldn't mug an old lady. That could be my grandmother." When asked whom it would be okay to mug, the boy answered, "A Chinese delivery guy." The psychologist who related the story explained that "The old lady is someone they could empathize with. The Chinese delivery guy is alien, literally and figuratively, to them."

As a modern component of culture, the media plays a primary role in shaping people's perceptions of who exists within and outside of the human, and thus the moral realm. Given the fact that Asians have perpetually been portrayed by the media as outsiders, do you still wonder why the Chinese delivery guy would be considered alien to kids looking for someone to mug? Do you wonder why student Kwok Po Lui was badly beaten by kids who exclaimed, "'Hitting Chinese is very fun"?? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/02/29/2008-02-29_student_c...

Looking back at my childhood exposure to the media, there's no doubt that American pop culture and media had a marginalizing effect upon my social and cultural development, as well as that of my Asian-American peers.

If media producers fail to portray us in a positive, beautiful, human way, then you better believe that I am going to speak out against Hollywood's transgressions, such as the one committed by the producers of the film 21. While some things have changed for the better, some things still remain the same, and that's why I'm speaking out against this movie. So, for any improvement to continue, I have a responsibility to be an agent of such change. For as long as Hollywood producers continue to marginalize us, WE WILL NOT BE SILENT. I owe that much to my children.

This post is entirely relevant to the film, and if you mark this otherwise, you are complicit in perpetuating the cultural marginalization and subjugation of Asian-Americans. And by paying money to see this film, you would be sending the message to Hollywood producers that it is okay to portray Asian-Americans as outsiders. You would be complicit in creating an atmosphere in which anti-Asian violence and harassment is cultivated.

How would you like to explain to my 3rd-generation American children why they are perpetual foreigners in the land of their birth?

Blake Tamaki (UCLA) wroteon

Submitted by edwinl (not verified) on Fri, 01/02/2009 - 21:03.

Blake Tamaki (UCLA) wroteon 22 March 2008 at 02:42

Ben Mezrich and Jeff Ma went into hiding.

For there is no argument left for them to make that hasn't been thoroughly refuted.

John Derrick Yao replied to John's poston 22 March 2008 at 15:24

They just marked your posting as irrelevant. We must be having a huge impact.

David Liang (UPenn) replied to John's poston 22 March 2008 at 15:34

Excellent post man.

Brad Chu (Simon Fraser) replied to John's poston 22 March 2008 at 17:46

Thanks for sharing this post with us John. If the PR people really had reasons for the casting (despite the obvious "America loves Whitey"), they'd find ways to mitigate our problems with the movies, rather than outright censorship.

John Derrick Yao replied to John's poston 22 March 2008 at 19:07

they deleted the topic that Jay Jay put up

John Estrada (Fairfield) replied to John's poston 22 March 2008 at 19:34

The marking of my post as "irrelevant" makes me more sad than angry.

My comments were rather innocuous - no personal attacks, no insults, no harassment of any kind. I was just expressing my heartfelt sentiments about the movie.

A part of me hoped that the cultural marginalization of Asian-Americans in film and television was inadvertent, but the marking of my post as irrelevant just proves that such marginalization is actually INTENTIONAL.

Hence, the marking of our posts irrelevant, while Kimberly Pennell 's posts remain untouched. My guess is that Ms. Pennell is not Asian.

I'm afraid that the situation is worse than I thought.

John Derrick Yao replied to John's poston 23 March 2008 at 07:09

In my opinion this what we should do in regards to the "21" fan site.

Every time they delete or mark irrelevant a comment go back on and repost the same comment.

They may try and silence dissent or censor our comments but it does not mean we are beaten.

John Derrick Yao replied to John's poston 23 March 2008 at 07:12

John with your permission:

I want to copy and paste your original posting as of 03/22/2008 each and every time it is deleted and or marked irrelevant.

John Estrada (Fairfield) replied to John's poston 23 March 2008 at 13:15

Fine by me. You da man.

John Derrick Yao replied to John's poston 23 March 2008 at 19:32

So be it. It has been done!!!

I ask our fellow group members to vigilant and monitor the 21 site. If John's post are deleted and marked irrelevant please just copy and paste it back. We need everyones help. The time for action is now at hand.

Stand Up and let our voices be heard.

John Estrada (Fairfield) replied to John's poston 24 March 2008 at 04:19

They're not just marking them as irrelevant anymore. They're deleting the posts entirely. I just started a new topic, with an edited (grammar, clarity, flow) version of my previous post:

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As a father, I owe it to my children to let the world know about how Hollywood's casting process marginalizes Asian-Americans. This post is entirely relevant to the film, and if you delete this, you are complicit in perpetuating the cultural marginalization and subjugation of Asian-Americans...

Then along comes a movie based on the story of smooth, suave, and sexy Asian-American men. These are men that I can relate to. The perfect opportunity to show us as we REALLY are, and what do the producers do? They cast the lead characters as white!!!

As a living, breathing, red-blooded American father, I want to make sure that my own children see themselves as they truly are: multifaceted, three-dimensional human beings, experiencing the same joys and sorrows as every other red-blooded American. I want their non-Asian peers to see them as people to whom they can relate, and not as perpetual foreigners in the land of their birth.

How is such behavior cultivated? The psychosocial causes of bigotry and genocide are rooted in the process of moral exclusion.

As a modern component of culture, the media plays a primary role in shaping people's perceptions of who exists within and outside of the human, and thus the moral realm. Given the fact that Asians have perpetually been portrayed by the media as outsiders, is there any wonder why student Kwok Po Lui was badly beaten by kids who exclaimed, "'Hitting Chinese is very fun"?? (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/02/29/2008-02-29_student_c...)

It's ironic how pseudo-liberals among the Hollywood glitterati claim to support the preservation of human civil rights, calling for socially responsible behavior, adopting children of color left and right, while nothing is done to promote positive portrayals of diversity in film and television. Civil rights abuses are taking place daily in casting calls around the nation. It's the only American industry that discriminates on the basis of race!

So, if media producers fail to portray us in a positive, beautiful, human way, then you better believe that I am going to speak out against Hollywood's transgressions, such as the one committed by the producers of the film 21. For as long as Hollywood producers continue to marginalize us, WE WILL NOT BE SILENT. I owe that much to my children.

By paying money to see this film, you would be sending the message to Hollywood producers that it is OK to portray Asian-Americans on the periphery of the human experience. You would be complicit in creating an atmosphere in which anti-Asian violence and harassment is cultivated.

Would you like to explain to my 3rd-generation American children why they are perpetual foreigners in the land of their birth?

John Derrick Yao wroteon 24 March 2008 at 06:01

I think we need to start contacting the fans of the film directly as to their decisions on supporting a film that tries to white wash the truth.

Trying to engage the stake holders in debate or discussion has become counter productive.

John Derrick Yao wroteon 24 March 2008 at 06:13

Here's the producer's face book page.

He is listed as liberal in his views.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=570143130

Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon 24 March 2008 at 22:03

Here is what infuriates me. Various people involved with the movie keep bringing up how it's loosely based on the book, which is loosely based on the real life story.

Well... the only reason it was a best seller in the first place was its premise that it was non-fiction and not too made up. Otherwise, it's a pretty crappy book with poor writing that any hack writer could write up. Additionally, the huge draw for the movie is that it was real, that it really happened, not to go see some fictionalized fake story.

You can't have it both ways. People pay to read the book or watch the movie because it is supposedly non-fiction. You can't then claim much of it is just fiction and entertainment in defending the offensive casting decisions, because then the story just looks average, nothing special, any average hack could probably think up something even better than this cliche'd plot they've created.

Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to Vinh's poston 25 March 2008 at 13:07

I just noticed this post and agree with many but strongly disagree with the last point.

It IS important to call out and rip down certain individuals. Without calling out certain people, the rest of the Asian American community doesn't know what is considered unacceptable. This is important if you, as a community, want to have any semblance of self respect as a group.

Certainly this doesn't mean ONLY cutting down. Building up the community is the most important thing, however that doesn't automatically mean you can't ever call out people. When you start asking yourself what kind of community you want, what do you want it to look like, you have to look at the direction it is going. Right now, Asian America is headed in the wrong direction with 'Falling for Grace' and 'Red Doors', and where the most successul or visible Asian American icons are more often than not Uncle Tom Asians. Sometimes you need to put the brakes on and say 'hold on a minute, what the hell?' You can't just blindly support everything, building up a community means not just propping up the ones you like and support, but also letting the community know what is not acceptable.

As it pertains to this case for Jeff Ma, I'll let him slide because I feel like he is doing the best he can as an Asian American at this point and had no input in he casting process. And also there are other actresses or actors who are just trying to survive out there. But then there are those who have the power to create or write or direct, and they deserve more of the blame, especially the Asian American ones. Or, the ones who establish a definite history of being a self hating Uncle Tom, those definitely need to be called out. I personally DO NOT want any impressionable Asian youth thinking Tila Tequila, Lucy Liu, or Michelle Malkin, are cool or role models.

La Somsnith (Greensboro, NC) replied to John's poston 25 March 2008 at 13:38

thank you for the post, they cannot silence me... I WILL COPY AND PASTE!!!

Vinh Hua (New School) replied to Alvin's poston 25 March 2008 at 15:09

My issue isn't that we shoulder support everyone or everything, or that we shouldn't critique or criticize. if it's wack, call it such.

my issue IS the fact that too often the entire structure of the problem becomes personalized into a single individual, so much so that it is the individual or set of individuals that is seen to be the source of the problem, thereby causing us to ignore the structural issues and problems in favor of scape goating, or personalizing.

in any community, in any form of building, there needs to be a sense of accountability, sure. that's a given and has never really been the issue, but the personalization of large structural problems into a single person or set of individuals is not productive. neither is a focus on ripping people downwards. it's not the action of criticism that i'm bringing into question, rather, it's the fact that we often deconstruct, tear down, without any effort at rebuilding. that's a problem with postmodernity, and that's a problem here, the focus at the end of the day is to build. we can't lose sight of that in our desire to a) personalize a problem or b) rip shit down.

John Derrick Yao wroteon 25

Submitted by edwinl (not verified) on Fri, 01/02/2009 - 21:05.

John Derrick Yao wroteon 25 March 2008 at 19:35

Hollywood has always exploited minorities.
From the first gigantic money making blockbuster D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation where African American sterortypes were exploited to make money by white film makers

To the casting of John Wayne as Genghis Khan, Omar Shariff again in the remake of Genghis Khan, Anthony Quinn as a Filipino freedom fighter, Yul Brynner as the King of Thailand,Ben Kingsley as Mohandas K. Ghandi or Pete Postelthwaite as a fictional Japanese gangster who spoke the entire time with the wrong accent in the Ususal Suspects

My point is simply this:
The main characters in the film: Ken Lewis, Ben Campbel, and Mikey Rosa are based of the following Asian Men: Jeff Kevin Ma, Mike Aponte, and John Chang.

According to the real Jill Lewis the character portrayed in the movie by Kate Bosworth in the Boston Globe has admitted that Jeff Ma was one of the MIT Black Jack Team Leaders and that Jeff Ma recruited her into the team.

Ms Lewis has also stated the following:
”Jeff would occasionally have an expensive bottle of wine or champagne, and it didn’t make a whole lot of sense. Then he told us about Vegas,” Willis says. “I think it dawned on him that we could play blackjack and also give the team, which was mostly Asian”

Here is the link to the Boston Globe: http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/articles/2008/03/25/count_her_out/?page=...

John Chang has stated on his website that he is the inspiration for the Mikey Rosa character on the film.

Here is his link: http://mickeyrosa.com/

My name is John Chang. I am the basis for Ben Mezrich’s characters Mickey Rosa (from Bringing Down the House) and Victor Cassius (from Busting Vegas). Kevin Spacey plays Mickey Rosa in the 21 movie, premiering March 28, 2008.

Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon 25 March 2008 at 23:26

A john estrada post. i am personally glad this paper actually put his photo and face in the paper, because a lot of the other interviews he has done put sturgess' face in the paper:

[Okay, I really didn't want to believe this, but it's officially confirmed that Jeff Ma really is an uncle Tom with a colonized mind. It explains why he actively sought to have a white Englishman portray him in the movie 21.

In this article: http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2008-03-25-jeff-ma-21_N.htm

"I would have been a lot more insulted if they had chosen someone who was Japanese or Korean, just to have an Asian playing me,' Ma says."

What's wrong with having someone of another Asian ethnicity portray your character?

See, I'm Filipino, and whenever I'm mistaken for a Chinese, Japanese, or Korean, I take it as a compliment. You know why? It's because I'm no longer brainwashed by the media. If I were brainwashed, I'd be ashamed to be Asian, just like Jeff Ma.

I'm no longer like I was when I was a kid in the 80s, back when Filipinos liked to pretend they were Spanish. Some still do, but they're a dying breed.]

Margaret Tran (Australia) replied to Alvin's poston 26 March 2008 at 05:28

It's interesting how Sturgess was more concerned over the ethnic change than Ma was.

That direct quote does sound bad, though I'm thinking maybe Ma was implying his fear that the producers would pick a AA actor purely for aesthetic value over the whole character of the story itself..? Ack nooo.. the hope I had in him has now died. Le sigh.

*begins the search for another AAM to look up to*

Caroline Hugh (Cornell) replied to Alvin's poston 26 March 2008 at 05:37

i read the whole article just to find that quote myself. ugh, for once it wasn't the author who was offensive, but the interviewee himself. very sad.

Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to 's poston 26 March 2008 at 10:33

Yeah I can't really blame Jeff too much because at the time he was telling Mezrich about his story or during the script writing process, I was probably still not aware either, most of us were probably like he was. ANBM didn't exist back then. Also, at least he is putting his Asian face out there in papers so that people know who the real Ben Campbell is, I have to say the studio at least gave us that.

On the other hand, a guy like Gedde Watanabe I will never forgive because he has built an entire career around not caring, so he sucks.

Allan Liao (UF) wroteon 28 March 2008 at 11:47
Well the first reviews are in from rotten tomatoes, 21 scores a 35%.

Looking through what the critics say, only a few mention what a disappointing adaptation it is, and none mention the casting choices. In the end, I'll settle for them just saying this movie stinks.

Tim M. Chen (Rutgers) replied to 's poston 31 March 2008 at 14:01

Positively speaking, we have Kal Penn who starred in some pretty decent roles in a few Hollywood movies (Harold & Kumar, Van Wilder: Rise of Taj) and John Cho who is a rising AA star and gained the mainstream spotlight in (Harold & Kumar).

Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon 31 March 2008 at 14:43

I just found out the casting director for '21' also did the casting for 'Memoirs of a Geisha'. Interesting.

Kao Xiong (St. Cloud) replied to Alvin's poston 31 March 2008 at 14:50

"I just found out the casting director for '21' also did the casting for 'Memoirs of a Geisha'. Interesting."

That pretty much explains why they put an old ugly fat white guy at the end of the movie trying to have sex with the main character Sayuri (played by the sluttish Zhang Ziyi). But in the book there was no WHITE GUY.

Angie Cheng (Los Angeles, CA) replied to Alvin's poston 31 March 2008 at 14:51

ah. that explains why the guy didn't give a crap and didn't even think twice about any controversy his decisions caused. i guess he (he?) decided that he was going to be in the business for the money, since he cast chinese actors instead of japanese actors in 'Geisha' because they were more well known and then cast white actors instead of asian actors for the same reason. our protests fall on deaf ears. what a tard. he probably thinks all asians are the same as well.

Angie Cheng (Los Angeles, CA) replied to Kao's poston 31 March 2008 at 14:53

hahaha i like how we were both like *GASP* EUREKA!

when i saw that scene in theaters i was CRINGING. but i guess at least the movie portrayed the gross white guy as a boorish character: he was propositioning the geishas for sex, which was totally an ignorant american thing to do, and the two geishas were really offended.

aahh now when i think of it i wanna barf again. @_@

Kao Xiong (St. Cloud) replied to Angie's poston 31 March 2008 at 15:01

" he was propositioning the geishas for sex, which was totally an ignorant american thing to do, and the two geishas were really offended. "

At that scene I see it more of a " white man stepping over the Asian man's face" sort of way. But that's just my masculine view.

Kao Xiong (St. Cloud) replied to Angie's poston 31 March 2008 at 15:03
for a second I thought you were Ivy Chang...must be the Dp. 0_o

Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to Angie's poston 31 March 2008 at 15:24
That's a great explanation of this casting person's mentality: money/market above all else

Angie Cheng (Los Angeles, CA) replied to Kao's poston 01 April 2008 at 09:45

I looked her up in my friends list and it's true. we do look rather alike in our natural state. her nose is a little rounder though? dang. it's the dreaded all-asian-girls-look-alike disease. aaaahhh!!

Ike Mao (Olin) replied to Angie's poston 01 April 2008 at 09:49

[it's the dreaded all-asian-girls-look-alike disease.]

Being beautiful is such a blight. >.<

Vinh Hua (New School) replied to Ike's poston 01 April 2008 at 13:14

... until your SOs mistake someone else for you.

Kao Xiong (St. Cloud) replied to Ike's poston 01 April 2008 at 20:14
"Being beautiful is such a blight. >.<"

Hey it's the inside that truly matters at the end. ;)

Tim M. Chen (Rutgers) replied to Angie's poston 01 April 2008 at 20:29

So you most be very pretty then, yes? *wink wink, nudge nudge
lol

Vinh Hua (New School) replied to Tim's poston 01 April 2008 at 20:37
... huge facepalm moment.

Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon 22 May 2008 at 15:50
An article in an Australian newspaper, by ANBM's own Margaret Tran!!

Kao Xiong (St. Cloud) replied to Jeffrey's poston 17 March 2008 at 19:18
"I have hoped that one way I could do the Asian American community justice was to put myself out there and promote the movie showing the world that the real person behind the story was indeed Asian. I took two weeks off from my day job because I believed being a part of the promotion of the movie was that important and Sony was gracious enough to let me be a part of that effort."

Sure, I hope that the bootlegs about this movie comes out in China, and SE Asia before it hits the theaters here.

Quyet Le (Dallas / Fort Worth, TX) replied to Kao's poston 17 March 2008 at 20:58

I agree with you Kao. It looks like this whole doing the AA community justice comments by Jeff appears to be tacked on as afterthought rather than stemming from any genuine Asian pride. I don't blame him though, once you gain privilege and status I can see how difficult it would be to give a damn anymore about who you are and where you came from.

I do give credit to both Ben and Jeff for responding though even if their answers seemed like they had the involvement of publicists. They just seemed like the right balance between displaying awareness just enough not to fan the flames and cause more negativity for the unreleased film.

Who knows, maybe just maybe Ben will read the threads and clue himself up and stop writing stories with stereotyped characters and premises under the cover of multi-ethnicity. Maybe it's a little too much to hope for.

I'm more pissed off with the upcoming Forbidden Kingdom to be honest. The majority of people are not going to know about the Asian backdrop of 21 so it won't hurt us as much as a very Asian centric film starring the two biggest Asian superstars. Two worldly recognized stars who will be speaking English and will be playing second fiddle to the white hero and affecting how others perceive Asians and how we perceive ourselves.

Taylor Yu (Catholic University of America) replied to Jeffrey's poston 18 March 2008 at 07:38
Jeff I do not think you are a race traitor so do us a favor and publicize yourself as much as possible and represent your community as a whole. I still won't be watching this movie though.

Vinh Hua (New School) replied to Taylor's poston 18 March 2008 at 08:00

... did you really just say race traitor?

Taylor Yu (Catholic University of America) replied to Vinh's poston 18 March 2008 at 08:08
well I said that I did not think he was one, what of it?

Jay Phan wroteon 18 March 2008 at 08:12

I believe it could have been a great vehicle of a story for many Asian American male actors who would otherwise have never gotten a chance to get a leading role in Hollywood ever. With regards to the issue of race, I simply could not have imagined any real life African Americans would allow themselves to be protrayed by a White actor on screen. If this movie becomes a success, it is true that about 90% of the viewers would not take the time to or begin to understand the racism Asians faced in Hollywood and that there are indeed Asian Americans who are capable of such a story in real life. I just feel it is a missed opportunity for the Asian American males who have been down and out for so long in the entertainment and media or the U.S. I don't think anyone is a traitor, if anything Bai Ling is a traitor to her heritage, I think Jeff just wasn't aware of the situation of Asian American community in the entertainment industry.

Vinh Hua (New School) replied to Taylor's poston 18 March 2008 at 08:12

i'm just surprised that that phrase is still used... and that you would use it thereby suggesting he might have been one

Taylor Yu (Catholic University of America) replied to Vinh's poston 18 March 2008 at 08:43
What's wrong with that phrase anyway?

Michelle Malkin is a race traitor, so is Amy Tan, Gette Watanabe...etc

John Derrick Yao replied to Taylor's poston 18 March 2008 at 08:44

Let's analyze the facts:
The book was about smart college kids who applied their knowledge and natural ability to take on the Las Vegas casinos.

A large majority of the members of the team were Asian.
A classic tale of the underdog taking on a powerful enemy.

The casting of the movie denies the fact that the impossible was done by underestimated college aged Asians.

The movie plays down the role of Asians as to what they are capable of doing by ignoring the fact as to who did most of the heavy lifting so to speak.

If you are going to cast a movie based on real events that was written about in the book you have to cast actors who look like the people who achieved what was written in the book which is being portrayed in the movie.

Growing up I was offended when white actors used to play Asian roles such as John Wayne playing the role of Genghis Khan and Anthony Quinn of all people the grandson of a Filipino Spanish American war revolutionary . I was offended back then and I am offended again by the denial of key pieces of information portrayed in this film.

You can’t just put in the token Asian actor in the film and call it accurate.

John Derrick Yao replied to Taylor's poston 18 March 2008 at 10:25

I agree with Taylor about Michelle Malkin. That Chick is nuts for writng "In Defense of Internment" she basically justifies racial profiling. Last time, I looked the constitution stated that people were innocent till proven guilty.

Taylor Yu (Catholic University of America) replied to John's poston 18 March 2008 at 10:32

Well the Constitution says due process of law, the common law says guilt beyond a reasonable doubt....etc But Malkin is a conservative so I don't think the Constitution really matters to them...

Oh and I agree with the sentiments you express, I just don't think Jeff is a race traitor.

Bryant Kou (UCSD) replied to Taylor's poston 18 March 2008 at 10:42

Taylor, after considerable thought I have decided you are not a genocidal dictator.

Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to Bryant's poston 18 March 2008 at 11:59

how can we make studios care in the future? we have to hurt their bottom line somehow, either through bad PR or...

Gary Huang (Berkeley) replied to Jeffrey's poston 18 March 2008 at 13:39

"My parents are immigrants and are central figures in my life and as a child I went to Chinese school, etc."

Sorry to burst your bubble, Jeff, but all these things do not preclude you from being a sell-out. Hell, I was born in China and went to Chinese school every weekday for several years, and I was a self-hater until college.

Everything you said makes some sense, and it's too bad that you'll have to explain yourself for the rest of your life by those who care about the state of Asian Americans. Unfortunately, you only have yourself to blame. Because you had such an important role in deciding who would star in this movie and chose to have a white guy play your role, a large number of Asian Americans, myself included, will never accept that. No matter how you try to sugarcoat it, what you did helped prevent Asian Americans from being shown in the spotlight (yet again). Like many here have said, it was a great opportunity wasted to have a big-budget hollywood movie star an Asian American male with positive attributes (intelligent, suave, and confident)

The best thing you can do right now is put yourself out there and show the country that the real story had an Asian American protagonist.

John Derrick Yao replied to Taylor's poston 18 March 2008 at 13:53

Have you seen the Pro Michelle Malkin group on FB.

Here's the link http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2205077538

Jeffrey Kevin Ma (San Francisco, CA) replied to Gary's poston 18 March 2008 at 13:57

Gary, I'm not sure why you think I had such an important role in deciding who played me in the movie. Actually I had very little say as I am not a producer or director. I did say after meeting Jim and working with him I was happy with the studio's choice.

That being said, this is not the "Jeff Ma Biography". It's a movie adapted from a book which was based on a true story. The ethnicity of the central character is far from the only thing that was changed.

I really am sorry if you guys feel that I have let you down but as I've said before I am trying to represent my culture as well as I can in all the media that I am doing.

Peter Du (Olathe East Senior High) replied to Jeffrey's poston 18 March 2008 at 15:48

I realize that it's a movie based off a book, and more than one thing is lost in the translation, but if the book is based off of you, don't you find it a little upsetting that at least your name has been changed?

Blake Tamaki (UCLA) replied to Jeffrey's poston 18 March 2008 at 16:30

Jeffrey, it's an honor to have your opinion on this forum. When I was reading Bringing Down the House, I was knew that in reality, that's my Asian brother doing that shit. It's really a great story and you have major talent and balls to do that. With the Asian American "hero gap" that plagues us today, it's a rare thing to hear an amazing story about an Asian American.
That's why I was annoyed by Mezrich's choice to make "Kevin Lewis" an "indeterminate" race

"Kevin Lewis looks like a stereotypical college student. His features are ethnic, but beyond that, indeterminate. He could be Asian, Latino, even Italian or Russian. He is a carbon copy of thousands of other kids who call Boston home."

But that didn't detract that much from the read. I knew that the real Kevin Lewis was Asian so that's how I pictured him in my head. When "21" was announced to have a white lead replacing you, I was pissed. You can't escape from visuals. The Asian American protagonist (although not stated by Mezrich) that inspired me, was being replaced by a white guy. (typical Hollywood) Partly because this would have been such a great role for an Asian American.

People are mad because you took an ambivalent stance in the decision. Whether or not you had a decision is not important. You are a "race traitor" for not speaking out against the racist casting process. Still, you have an amazing story and should be regarded as an outstanding Asian American for what you've done in your life.

That being said, in retrospect would you do the same thing?

Peter Du (Olathe East Senior High) replied to Blake's poston 18 March 2008 at 16:40

I have to say, I was thinking almost the exact same thing. Growing up, I had a lack of real Asian American heroes, people who I could relate to and be inspired by. I'm pretty I'm still the same way, you could have been a hero to us that are still kids Jeff, and that's why I'm upset.

Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon 18 March 2008 at 22:57
isn't uncle tom a more well known word though? race traitor, to me, doesn't imply the dynamics as well, i dunno just my opinion

John Estrada (Fairfield) wroteon 19 March 2008 at 07:09
The 21 movie promotional Facebook Group is located here: http://www.facebook.com/21movie

There are a LOT of fans on that group, including a lot of Asians. Any thoughts on how to open their eyes? Too many people are taking the blue pill, and are afraid to take the red pill.

There's a way to post comments. I wonder what we could do there to get the word out.

John Estrada (Fairfield) replied to John's poston 19 March 2008 at 07:50

I wonder how long this guy's comments will last on this page:
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=6806293649&topic=4286

John Derrick Yao replied to John's poston 19 March 2008 at 19:27

You should see my response before they mark it irrelevant again. IF they delete it go ahead and repost what I wrote word for word . Just think of flooding their page with the Jeff Ma Profile picture and the same answer over and over.
Here's the text as to what I wrote. You have permission to use my words.

Let's analyze the facts:

The book was about smart college kids who applied their knowledge and natural ability to take on the Las Vegas casinos.

A large majority of the members of the team were Asian. A classic tale of the underdog taking on a powerful enemy.

The casting of the movie denies the fact that the impossible was done by underestimated college aged Asians.

The movie plays down the role of Asians as to what they are capable of doing by ignoring the fact as to who did most of the heavy lifting so to speak.

If you are going to cast a movie based on real events that was written about in the book you have to cast actors who look like the people who achieved what was written in the book which is being portrayed in the movie.

Growing up I was offended when white actors used to play Asian roles such as John Wayne playing the role of Genghis Khan and Anthony Quinn of all people the grandson of a Filipino Spanish American war revolutionary . I was offended back then and I am offended again by the denial of key pieces of information portrayed in this film.

You can’t just put in the token Asian actor in the film and call it accurate.

John Estrada (Fairfield) replied to John's poston 20 March 2008 at 10:45

An even better way to get more visibility is to start a new topic. Check out the new topic posted by Jay Jay de la cruz: "DON'T PAY TO SEE 21 - RACIST PRODUCERS DON'T DESERVE YOUR MONEY"
LOL!!

п»ї Very very informative and

Submitted by johnstevens (not verified) on Mon, 06/22/2009 - 14:38.

п»ї Very very informative and useful article. Yes, nowadays such important problems are existed. In fact in these countries exist different programs, but they not so developed. I think the government of these countries must pay more attention to such themes.