Attraction Manufactured by Society / Media?

Darryl J Chow (UCSC) wroteon May 8, 2007 at 6:57pm
Oh yeah, well that's how it is. I have distant cousins that were born in dominantly white towns and they admit that they would never date asian men because white men are "sooo sweet". *shivers* They're in their late 30s though. It's sort of getting better now though or at least where i'm at. But still i'll admit, so many asian dudes have confidence problems... It's painfully annoying to see some poor asian classmate put himself down constantly, i hear it soo much. There's so much self hatred going on in high school, hopefully they'll grow out of it.

Yoo-Hyun Oak replied May 8, 2007 at 7:02pm
idk most asian guys i see arent "short and slight"

and yeah i think some of this is going away with our generation (depending on where you live)

the asian population is growing and i think it will get better with time

idk i think its also up to the parents to raise their children in places with an asian population , or simply not just white people
the time i spent in all-white enviroments were pretty miserable. i mean they werent necessarily bad places to live, but its difficult to have to represent an entire race to kids who dont encounter asians at all. and yeah they have strange ideas about asian beauty and very white-centric ideas of what is good-looking.


Kao Xiong (St. Cloud) wroteon May 8, 2007 at 7:10pm
I have hated Asian girls who used that line "Asia guys are short" to the extremist extent.

Hell most of the time it's Asian girls who think that they're too tall but yet too insecure about being attractive (and their only hope of acceptance is running to the white men), and even short Asian girls who are barely 5ft complains too...


Joan Louie replied to Kao's poston May 8, 2007 at 7:52pm
5ft tall asian girls complain about being too tall? O_o haven't heard that one

I hated being tall in high school, especially when I went to parties with heels on and and I could literally see the tops of almost everyone's heads. everyone *was* asian, but that's not really significant. I think when I wear heels (3", which is the norm) I'm about the same height/sometimes taller than a lot of men in general (not just asians).

joan Louie replied to Joan's poston May 8, 2007 at 7:53pm
though I guess back in high school lots of guys hadn't gone through their final growth spurts yet and a lot of them were shorter than me.

Robby Cheng replied to Alvin's poston May 8, 2007 at 9:40pm
damn media.

ive never met a girl who only dates white guys - other than white girls. its weird for me to meet a person - i have friends who are dating white guys but they don't limit themselves to white guys. they dated asian guys and still continue to date asian guys. i don't know how id react if i met a girl who says i'll only date white guys.

Whitney Schwandt wroteon May 8, 2007 at 11:03pm
Somehow the short and slight thing doesn't really make sense to me....

I have asian male friends 7 of them are above 6 feet tall. I date one of them, and he was pretty much not nerdy or anything....hardworking, yes....but as hardworking as he was, he partied just as hard. >_<

Brittany Houston (Georgia State) replied to Whitney's poston May 8, 2007 at 11:26pm
it's so easy to use negative generalizations,which aren't particularly accurate, to date outside your race. Seriously, she just prefers white guys anyway.She attempted to use a half ass excuse instead of proclaiming her utter lust for White guys.

Whitney Schwandt replied to Brittany's poston May 8, 2007 at 11:28pm
Bleh....I like to think that people are better than that. It's disgusting when one encounters people of such mindset. :(

Yoo-Hyun Oak replied to Brittany's poston May 9, 2007 at 12:35am
well im not really from anywhere, ive moved around a bit
but the mostly white place would be marthas vineyard (MA)
most other places ive lived have been majority white, like brookline (MA), princeton (NJ), simi valley (CA)...and so forth
but those places had/have close contact with bigger cities and a fair asian/or other minority population
i'd say MV was the exception..i couldnt date an asian guy because there were literally none around. also, i only was there til 8th grade but all of my friends were dating by then.
basically i have no problems dating asians, non asians whatever (though im with the guy i want to be with) but people with no experience living in a diverse place just tend to have all kinds of stupid tendencies and beliefs that come out- youre constantly blindsided by their racism.

Jessica Lee (UCSD) wroteon May 9, 2007 at 12:54pm
was this news to anyone?


Brittany Houston (Georgia State) replied to 's poston May 9, 2007 at 3:44pm
Well, where I'm from and how I was raised,whites were far from getting the glory as the standard of beauty. But you can't deny that the standard American beauty tends to be more Eurocentric features.Even if generally white women have smaller butts, they still are glorified more than any other race of women. That doesn't mean that everyone believes that they are the best looking,but the media sure does support that theory.

But we all know there are some hott Asian,Hispanic, and Black women!

-White women in the South are different from the images I see on Television anyway.Like those crappy MTV Shows about rich white kids. Here they seem to carry on a little more weight and dress less glamorious.

and where are you from?


Jonathan Chee (UC Davis) replied to Joan's poston May 9, 2007 at 10:35pm
Joan, Kao was saying he saw 5ft asian girls saying asian guys were too short, well at least i think thats what he said.

Duong Pham (Montreal, QC) replied to Jonathan's poston May 9, 2007 at 10:55pm
That's not necessarily relegated to short Asian girls. A lot of petite women seem to like tall men I find (6 feet+). Just because you a fatass does not mean you have to like other fatasses, know what I mean?

 
Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon May 22, 2007 at 6:42am
So how are some individuals able to claim 'I like or only date [insert race] men/women'? What does that mean when they say that?

Caroline Hugh (Cornell) replied to Alvin's poston May 22, 2007 at 7:03am
i don't know what to say about that. so far (i believe) all of us here do not date exclusively one race. and none of us seemed to have understood or sympathized with people who make such proud and ridiculous statements.


Vince Su (UConn) replied to Alvin's poston May 22, 2007 at 9:59am
I think much of this boils down to racism and in many cases, self-hatred. I admit, when I was younger (middle school and some of high school), I vehemently opposed the idea of marrying an another Asian girl. I suppose some of it was rebellion against parental influence since they would prefer I dated and married Asian, but a lot of it was "white is right" influence. I was often bullied and isolated in school because of my race, and I would think, "if I wasn't Asian, this shit wouldn't be happening to me". I came to resent myself.

Eventually as I grew older and more mature, I realized the errors of my ways and learned to appreciate and embrace my race and culture. I see it as a great blessing, as I can grow with the best of both worlds, so to speak, and view the world through a multicultural and diverse scope.

Unfortunately, a lot of people, especially Asian women, never grow out of this self-hatred. I'm starting to see signs of it in my high school age sister, and it is a little worrying.

Reuben Tang (University of Toronto) replied to Vince's poston May 22, 2007 at 8:20pm
Have you talked to your sister about it? A trip back to the mother country could be helpful, although that would be pricy. Or... or... you could move......

      Reply to ReubenReport

Post #27
2 replies
Caroline Hugh (Cornell) replied to Reuben's poston May 23, 2007 at 4:26am
nah, you don't have to be so radical. i think explaining what you believe and why you do should be sufficient. back it up by showing her this group and some historical sources about the racism of this country, especially against AAs. she might know a bit about the racism against blacks, but it doesn't hit home until it gets personal. and don't forget the fetishism, she might relate to that as well. i know i got hit on a few times for my appearance. some older guys flirted with my mom too, but she didn't consider it flirting, and she wanted to practice her english anyway. she didn't get worried until i warned her about the asian fetishism.


Reuben Tang (University of Toronto) replied to Caroline's poston May 23, 2007 at 7:13am
Judging from what I've read from Vince on this board, I really do think it's in his/his family's best interests to move. Of course, I don't have the full picture...

     
Caroline Hugh (Cornell) replied to Reuben's poston May 23, 2007 at 7:32am
oh yeah, his school does sound pretty racist. unfortunately i remember him saying that he chose his school for academic strengths that interest him, and it may not even be in his power whether his family moves or not.


Robby Cheng replied to Reuben's poston May 24, 2007 at 11:03am
i agree with a trip to the mother country. my sister appreciates her background more since we went to visit china and japan.


Jonathan Chee (UC Davis) replied to Caroline's poston May 24, 2007 at 11:16am
"she might know a bit about the racism against blacks, but it doesn't hit home until it gets personal."

That is 100% true. I learned about so much racism against African Americans and I even went on a trip Junior year to the deep south to trace the Civil Rights Movement. But I didn't know anything about racism against Asians until I took an Asian American Studies class here. I was surprised I didn't learn any of this because I'm from in Daly City (50% Asian and 25% white).

Vince, definitely talk to your sister and educate her a bit about Asian American history. Also tell her about Asian fetishism just to show your concerns about guys that might date her for that reason. There's a lot to talk about, but I'm sure it will make a difference.

Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon June 12, 2007 at 10:52am
I think beauty is not a universal value. Fat women in history were considered hot before, now it's thin women. Even features like hip/waist ratio are not a universal value, because if in 200 years science eliminates the need for childbirth, then no one will care about hip/waist ratio.

Basically, beauty is a non-universal value that changes based on society and mass media.

Steven Lin (Rutgers) wroteon June 12, 2007 at 12:03pm
It depends on the traits. Whether being fat is considered attractive or not seems to depend on culture, as Alvin mentioned above. I think there's some other traits that are considered to be attractive universally. I think having a good 50/50, evenly porpotioned face will always be considered attractive while looking like the Hunchback of Norte Dame never will be.

Brad Chu (Simon Fraser) replied to Vince's poston June 12, 2007 at 7:08pm
I think there's still hope. My sister always told me she'd "never date an Asian guy", but I had some interesting conversations with her (she gradded high school last year), and we still talk humorously about the shocked look on my face when she brought home an Asian boy. I think it is important to challenge somebody who sees such a narrow view, not necessarily so you can convince them that they are wrong, but to give them a wider perspective on the issue at hand, especially for situations like these.


Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon August 7, 2007 at 9:31pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070806/hl_nm/kids_fastfood_dc
"CHICAGO (Reuters) - Preschoolers preferred the taste of burgers and fries when they came in McDonald's wrappers over the same food in plain wrapping, U.S. researchers said, suggesting fast-food marketing reaches the very young.

"Overwhelmingly, kids chose the one that they perceived was from McDonald's," said obesity prevention expert Dr. Thomas Robinson of the Stanford University School of Medicine, whose work appears in the Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine.

While prior studies have looked at the impact of individual ads on kids, Robinson and colleagues set out to study the overall influence of a company's brand -- based on everything from advertising to toy premiums and word of mouth."
---
it's not a big leap to reach similar conclusions in terms of 'people branding' in tv/commercials/movies (just like product branding)

     
Steven Lin (Rutgers) wroteon August 9, 2007 at 10:38am
I'll reiterate what I said before. I think there are certain physical traits that are objectively considered to be universally beautiful. There's even an area of philosophy devoted to it. However, media can still play a part. Stuff like blonde hair and what not, I think that's probably media-influenced.

     
Oliver Sha (Stony Brook University) wroteon August 9, 2007 at 10:52am
I would say Media definately plays a huge part. It helps fetishes a certain group of people. During the 90's, no women cared about Korean men, and now they are the hottest things in Asia. Just because they didn't have the same dramas and music back then, There were the same men in Korea, maybe alittle more macho, but still the same. Same thing with the rise of Hip-Hop and R&B, Look at these white girls, they're brainwashed that black is cool too!

     
Steven Lin (Rutgers) wroteon August 9, 2007 at 11:00am
Has anyone here ever heard the term "classic beauty"?

     
Caroline Hugh (Cornell) wroteon August 9, 2007 at 11:12am
sexual attraction is definitely manufactured by society/media, but we can change our own persuasions as well. for instance, i used to be neutral towards any race of man, but now i am more wary about white men and have a higher preference towards asian men.

     
Joan Louie wroteon August 10, 2007 at 1:28pm
stumbled upon this today... don't know if it's been posted before.

http://asiancemagazine.com/apr_2007/the_white_boy_speaks_on_dating_asian_women

white guy talks about his preference for asian women and how he believes he was born this way.

"I got over the feeling of racism when I realized the preference wasn't a judgment. It was just whom I was attracted to. My preference feels no more racist than being interested in women feels sexist."

     
Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to Joan's poston August 10, 2007 at 1:32pm
[skeptical]. would you buy the reverse reason? "i don't know why, as an asian boy, i was just born geneticically attracted to only date blond, blue-eyed women, no one else. i don't know why"

     
Bryant Kou (UCSD) replied to Joan's poston August 10, 2007 at 1:51pm
The whole article was about how he does not have an explaination for why he prefers asians, just that he is extremely attracted to asians. He also says that he does not know which physical feature he likes, he just likes the "asian features". These are both huge red flags for asian fetish.

This person has the strange notion that it is possible to have a GENETIC PREDISPOSITION TO A PREFERENCE FOR ASIANS. How reasonable does this sound to you?

Here's his big two questions:
"Is it hard to believe I can see a woman as an individual and find her attractive for being Asian?"
Yes. It is quite difficult to imagine someone finding an INDIVIDUAL attractive BECAUSE SHE IS PART OF A GROUP.

" Is it hard to believe my preference is something I was born with?"
Tell me when you find the Yellow Fever gene.

     
Lillian Kim replied to Joan's poston August 10, 2007 at 7:16pm
I call bullshit :(

     
David WAn replied to Joan's poston August 13, 2007 at 6:20pm
This guy is a cry baby

     
Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon November 12, 2007 at 12:18pm
"I don't know why, I'm just attracted to [x]". Um... nope.

By the way, just curious, has recent media changed dating patterns within the past 2 years? Just wondering if Lost, Yul Kwon, Heroes, Shanghai Kiss, etc have had any impact on this area at all.

     
Nkao Yang (St. Cloud) replied to Steven's poston November 12, 2007 at 12:36pm
yeah....i used it sometimes...is it bad????? *crosses fingers*

     
Nkao Yang (St. Cloud) wroteon November 12, 2007 at 12:43pm
i feel kinda guilty..b/c my sisters cant see me dating/marrying a hmong man...i feel really bad....

and not only that....i really really think this white guy is really really cute!!!! i think this one nepalese guy is cute..i think this japanese guy is cute too....but when it comes down on who i think is the cutest...its the white guy....but i have a feeling the white guy is a "wapanese"...not sure though...

     
David WAn replied to Nkao's poston November 12, 2007 at 12:53pm
try them out

     
Nkao Yang (St. Cloud) replied to David's poston November 12, 2007 at 1:10pm
hhehe you make it seem like i am buying a new car....

     
David WAn replied to Nkao's poston November 12, 2007 at 1:13pm
do u have a class. well u are the woman u do hold a lot of leverage over these guys

     
Nkao Yang (St. Cloud) replied to David's poston November 12, 2007 at 1:17pm
went to class...and the room was epmty!!!!! yippee!!!!!!....

true...but i dont know if they like me or not......

     
Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon December 2, 2007 at 6:37pm
Sydney metropolitan newspaper about the impact of Western films on Japanese women.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/on-a-lovestruck-mission-to-learn-english/2007/11/30/1196394619042.html

----------

On a lovestruck mission to learn English
Justin Norrie in Tokyo
December 1, 2007

When she left Japan, Motoko Ono was qualifed to be a Shinto priestess. But a lifetime of spiritual training could not prepare the 22-year-old for her first kiss, shared on the couch with "an Aussie man at the pub the other week".

"I'd never had a boyfriend so I thought, 'Oh my goodness, is it really happening?" gushed the shy Tokyo woman, who arrived in Sydney eight months ago to study English.

The next step, she says, could be getting a full-time Australian boyfriend to help sharpen her conversational skills and realise her akogare - a deeply entrenched notion of yearning felt by many Japanese women for a mastery of English, a Western emancipated life-style and often, a good-looking Western man.

Macquarie University researcher Kimie Takahashi spent five years interviewing young Japanese women studying English in Sydney, and found that almost all had arrived coveting a handsome and courteous English-speaking "gentleman" loosely based on their favourite Western film stars.

     
James Chou replied to Alvin's poston December 2, 2007 at 7:43pm
Dood stop spamming

     
Thomas Tu wroteon December 2, 2007 at 7:45pm
So Steven Lin and I were having a conversation in the chat yesterday.

He came to the conclusion that my attraction to Black and Hispanic women is probably cultivated by HipHop media.

I sat here and realized he was right.

The media is a helluva thing.

     
Christopher Khan (University of Toronto) replied to Thomas's poston December 2, 2007 at 7:55pm
ya ur right, when I was like 12 years old i used to like only white girls until when i got older as i started seeing more and more asian films, I started finding asian girls more attractive than whites

     
Julian Chan (University of Toronto) replied to Alvin's poston December 2, 2007 at 9:26pm
From the day you are born, your worldview, morality, life-philosophy and so in is created through socialization at home, at school, with friends etc.

Practically, how we all perceive life and everything it contains is probably VERY heavily influenced by a media we grow up from a very young age.

Sexual Attraction...yea, definitely. Cultures all ove rthe world have standards of beauty that probably go back thousands of years. They just get screwed around with in modern times, and with the rise of mass media, one culture's view (America) can end up splattering itself all over the world.

     
Brittany Houston (Georgia State) replied to Thomas's poston December 2, 2007 at 11:54pm
"He came to the conclusion that my attraction to Black and Hispanic women is probably cultivated by HipHop media"

Uh absolutely!That's really the most consistent images of black and hispanic women....well skanks.Stop watching those crappy videos.lol


Melissa Sathavipat (UCSD) wroteon December 3, 2007 at 2:11am
I think to a DEGREE we are of course influenced by society and media to be attracted to certain traits. "To a degree" - I mean that society/media only affect us so far. If you think about it, Tom Cruise and Josh Hartnett are (were?) pretty big and publicized for their good looks, but in reality they are not that good looking. In accordance with what other people said about classic beauty and the study [http://www.usaweekend.com/03_issues/030601/030601symmetry.html] that more symmetrical faces are found to be "more beautiful," I say that we are also, to a certain extent, born with a particular preference. The main thing on my mind when I read the title: is sexuality (towards a certain gender) manufactured? Or did you only have the intent of targeting how people are attracted to a particular race? Do we ever really know whether an Asian-White couple is forged from external or internal forces?


David WAn wroteon December 3, 2007 at 8:57am
our group is one of few instruments to undo it. We are making history as we speak. And many years from now people will look at us and society and know our contributions


Ken Yeh (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) wroteon December 3, 2007 at 9:27am
i think that media < where you grew up. If you grew up in a culturally diverse (or for a lot of asian self haters 0 minority neighborhoods) that's where your definition of beauty comes from. I think Asian Men having low confidence, comes from parenting to be honest. Maybe the media isn't helping, but my parents always shut down all my dreams of having a social life starting in 5th grade and watnot so i could go to a good college. They always yelled at me for thinking about girls/doing anything unrelated to school. Also i lived in the suburbs/farmland haha so without a vehicle you ain't really getting anywhere. That's why i feel a lot of asian people turn to video games, cuz they are stuck in the house with nothign to do.

Of course, most kids aren't obedient at some point.


Alex Chen (Texas) wroteon December 3, 2007 at 9:33am
The solution is to not let Asian kids get brainwashed. Make sure they watch Asian movies and get brainwashed by Asian beauty instead of white beauty.

Support Asian movies and music.

The American media is the enemy of the Asian race. It seeks to divide, dillute, and destroy us.
In other words,

American media : Asians :: Nazi Germany : Jews

The main difference is the tactics used.

I will admit that when I was a teenager, I was obsessed with white women. But that's not the case anymore. I was brainwashed by the society and media. Now that I'm in college for a little more than a year, I have more exposure to Asians and thus, I have a massive resurgence of Asian pride.

Besides, it's a good thing that I am more into Asian women because I have come to the realization that only Asian women will give quiet nerdy Asian guys a chance. Quiet nerdy Asian guys who obsess over white women end up like Cho Seung-Hui.

Here is what's interesting. The thing is that I am actually kind of happy that the media makes us look bad. That way Asian men will more likely date and marry Asian women. The only downside is that the media ends up brainwashing some Asian women into refusing Asian men. Asians (both men and women) who refuse to date Asians are traitors. They are fallen, corroded, and corrupted.


Ken Yeh (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) replied to Alex's poston December 3, 2007 at 9:38am
What happens if they are rejecting YOU. And it has nothing to do with your being asian. See herein lies to the problem to many of these guys who say that asian girls reject them.....No offense, but quiet nerdy asian guys while they do have a better chance with asian girls, if you a confident asian guy, you still have a better chance. In the end i feel it all comes down to yourself. Everything else is excusos. Life is too short, dont' have time for all that.

Alex Chen (Texas) replied to Ken's poston December 3, 2007 at 9:44am
That comment wasn't about myself. It was based on my observations.

Ken Yeh (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) replied to Alvin's poston December 3, 2007 at 9:48am
Well i would think that is, shit i didn't get into any colleges my friends got into with better scores, and more activities. To me, i just say that's shitty, but that is life. I have better things to worry abou than act like it's the end of the world. Girls that are brainwashed are a waste of my time, i just demean them and move on.

Alex Chen (Texas) replied to Ken's poston December 3, 2007 at 9:49am
I know.

The main point of the second post was to explain that I wasn't whining. Hell, I haven't even been rejected before. But instead it was just personal experiences and observations.


Ken Yeh (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) replied to Alex's poston December 3, 2007 at 9:50am
Bottom line is you just gotta be confident. I'm a nerd, and i'm damn proud. And while i am introverted, when i talk to girls i like, i'm the complete opposite. oh yah...alcohol helps haha.

Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to Ken's poston December 3, 2007 at 9:56am
"To me, i just say that's shitty, but that is life. I have better things to worry abou than act like it's the end of the world."
----

Dude under your attitude NOTHING would ever change, if Blacks had your attitude hell the Civil Rights movement would never have happened.

Ken Yeh (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) replied to Alvin's poston December 3, 2007 at 9:58am
Also for promotions, that is much more touchy. Gettign a job or an interview to begin with could be VERY race related. i don't wanna touch promotions however, because i hope it's not just my company, but i am beginning to notice a HUGE disparity in quality of work/amount of effort put into things among different race (i'm hoping this is due to things like educational background, certain individuals are just shitty). The optimist in me just says they hired shitty people....i can't verify until i move on to a new company..... I'm sorry, it's not a racist view, it is a very objective view as my job is to audit peoples work.

Alex Chen (Texas) replied to Alvin's poston December 3, 2007 at 10:02am
I agree.

Being a tough stoic brings no change. Change only happens if there is pressure because humans in general hate change. Sometimes, I think Asians have too much stoicism. Asians should be more like black people and go crazy over racist incidents rathar than just "take it like a man." This is one of the reasons why black people have more power and less likely to face racism than Asians.


Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to Ken's poston December 3, 2007 at 10:03am
Ken my point is, getting an interview request or being selected for a job is in some ways like how Asian guys are like with some women, a lot of times they are being essentially discriminated against because they are an Asian male.

And don't say only the dumb ones are brainwashed to discriminate, do you think only dumb people discriminate for interviews or job offers?

Ken Yeh (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) replied to Alvin's poston December 3, 2007 at 10:05am
The question is do they still have an interview to begin with. You can always wow em over there. I have never met a girl that was like you're asian screw you then and wouldn't even talk to me except one time i accidentally spilled a drink all over this girl, and that totally wasn't my fault lol.

Also I do think the majority of HR people are stupid, but that is besides the point. Jobs are NOT relationships. Because the difference is, you always have at least the interview, based on how you act before you actually meet....when courting a women. Jobs they look at your resume and can tell you to pack your bags BEFORE, you actually get to that point.

Alex Chen (Texas) replied to Ken's poston December 3, 2007 at 10:14am
Well blacks do have Affirmative Action. Hell, it's been argued that Affirmative Action is about blacks discriminating against whites. An Asian version of Affirmative Action wouldn't even be considered.

There is also the whole stereotypes issue.

Also, when a racist sees an Asian guy and a black guy, he is more likely to pick on the Asian guy. The reason is that the Asian has been labeled as "a weak submissive nerd who won't stand up for himself" while the black guy is labeled as "a violent aggreesor who would kill you if you miss with him."

These are a few examples why blacks face less racism.

Thomas Tu replied to Brittany's poston December 3, 2007 at 10:17am
That may be what continued to fuel my appreciation for Black and Hispanic women, but how do you explain my first crush at the age of 8 being Tyra Banks?

There are hundreds or models, actresses, random people on the street, I've been surrounded by mostly Asian people before I started going to school, before the media and society could really have an effect on me, does that still make my sexual attractions still manufactured by the media?

Or is it some off chance that I just happen to appreciate the Black and Hispanic figure more?


Thomas Tu replied to Alex's poston December 3, 2007 at 10:23am
Blacks face less racism is wildly false and completely misguided.

Before I begin, I will outright say that Asians do face an ample amount of racism.

But East Asians don't face institutionalized racism that Blacks have to deal with. We're more likely to get the job if an East Asian man and an Black man have similar credentials. Gentrification has been screwin Black people over in this country. Blacks have been here since the 1600s, East Asians have been here since the mid to late 19th century, and East Asians are the highest economic bracket of the 5 minorities represented in this nation. (Black, Hispanic, Middle Eastern, Native American). There's something odd about that.

I made the distinction of East Asian, because I think when America talks about Asians in the census and polls, they don't include Middle Eastern or Indian nations. I think.

I need someone to verify that for me, or discredit it.

Alex Chen (Texas) replied to Thomas's poston December 3, 2007 at 10:28am
In America, Middle Easteners are considered white and Indians are considered the same as East Asians. Well, at least that's what the census does.

East Asians earn a lot of money not because they are favored. It's because a lot of Asian families place a massive value on education. In this modern world, someone with a high level of education has a LOT more opportunities than someone with little education. I know it sounds cliched but it's true.

Thomas Tu replied to Alex's poston December 3, 2007 at 10:45am
So you're saying that Asians don't face racism.

In fact, their success can be attributed to hard work and diligence.

So, that means their success is objective, since intelligence and hard work are the primary factors for success.

So...you admit that Asians face less racism than Blacks?
Which is true.

Brittany Houston (Georgia State) replied to Alex's poston December 3, 2007 at 1:37pm
"Hell, it's been argued that Affirmative Action is about blacks discriminating against whites"


HAHAHAHA.How do blacks discriminate against whites when we hold little power to deny whites admission or employment?These are white people's poilicies,blacks didn't create the Affirmative Action policies.Blacks still face a great deal of racism,especially institutional racism,racial profiling,subtle racism,and marginalization.This isn't a competition on who gets treated like crap the most because all minorities suffer from the white power structure and racism.

Brittany Houston (Georgia State) replied to Thomas's poston December 3, 2007 at 1:41pm
lol


Yes it's still pretty much the media influencing these attractions,specifically Hip Hop images.Tyra Banks?Uh Idk about that,if you like big foreheads that's on you. The figures of black/hispanic varies,so Idk what you're talking about.

Alex Chen (Texas) replied to Thomas's poston December 3, 2007 at 2:44pm
No, I'm not saying that.

The thing is this: if you work your ass off, you will eventually achieve some type of success even if people are racist against you.

Second, a lot of Asians study subjects that many white people avoid like math and science. So, the hi-tech industry is going to have to hire Asians whether they like them or not. Besides, many Asian immigrants who study something else other than engineering end up going back to their country. That's because they can't find a job since a lot of white people studied what they did too. In conclusion, many Asians become successful because they do the stuff that white people don't like.

Alex Chen (Texas) replied to Brittany's poston December 3, 2007 at 2:45pm
I never said that I agree with that statement. I'm just saying that people have made that argument.


Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon February 13, 2008 at 9:57pm
A recent comment by Elton:
[individual preferences are created by and informed by social constructs and pressures such as racial images and messages in the media, then individual preferences always have political implications and reflect societal trends as a whole.

to put it more concretely, girls that reject guys on the basis of the guys being asian are not making this decision on a completely individual basis with careful, individual consideration. they are doing it due to social pressures, constructs, and images that are based on racism, colonialism, fetish, and other injustices. even preferences and desires that seem completely innocent and unique to the individual are informed by the individual's social environment, which means the balance of power - politics - is always in play.]

Elton gets a big gold star.
That post is money.

lvin Lin (MIT) wroteon March 6, 2008 at 9:59am
http://asiancemagazine.com/mar_2008/a_few_good_asian_men?page=1

Above is a great example of a stupid, self hating, White worshipping Asian female individual who is completely mass media brainwashed and doesn't even realize it.
What is horrible is that she is a writer for an Asian American female magazine.

Ike Mao (Olin) replied to Alvin's poston March 6, 2008 at 10:02am
Awww... way to focus on the negative. =(

I'm regretting tossing in those extra 2 lines about Asiance, when my thread was meant to hype Audrey and ask if anyone had their own good or bad reviews of it.

Ken Yeh (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) replied to Alvin's poston March 6, 2008 at 10:05am
Alvin this is true tho. Girls do enjoy challenges. girls have broke off with me cuz we didn't have any drama.

i think this has less to do with white washing than women being women. Also i why i think girls don't like nice guys (of all races). My white friend who is considered EXTREMELY attractive by many didn't get any for three years cuz he's a genuinely good person. Then he became bitter and all the sudden he's mr.pimping. It's the same shit.

Every women says they want a nice guy. They really only want them to be nice sometimes. And sometimes they want them to disobey there orders and dominate them. That's what i have learned.

Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to Ike's poston March 6, 2008 at 10:11am
ike better to call it out than to pretend it's not there, especially when it's an article on an asian american female magazine, a relatively high profile opinion, not just some stupid individual that isn't read by people.

Ken I agree with you to some extent, Asian and AA men need to break out of this 'mommas boy' mentality and being raised by their mothers or taught by women on how to attract women, because women HAVE NO CLUE on what they like, they say or teach their sons one thing but in my opinion it's horrible advice.

Is there an Asian American male magazine? I would like to start something that caters to AA men, and offers dating or sex tips, and talks about movies or entertainment or issues that AA men would be into.

Ken Yeh (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) replied to Alvin's poston March 6, 2008 at 10:14am
LOL it's shit like this why i don't date?!?!?? I detest drama, and if that is neccesary for a relationship, i'd rather not be in one. I tell girls i get with from the jump.

Ike Mao (Olin) replied to Alvin's poston March 6, 2008 at 10:14am
Do men even read people-oriented magazines beyond staring at the girls in them? =P Seems that men are a lot more interested in gadget/technology/hobby magazines.

Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to Ike's poston March 6, 2008 at 10:18am
well obviously it wouldn't be the same as audrey, it would be more like maxim or GQ, but catering to asian american men.

i'd shy away from emphasizing sexy female photos on there though, because in addition to adult men i would want families to order it for their sons in the household.

i'm thinking of covering: asian american male dating and sexuality and identity issues, grooming and fashion, interviews with stars, the latest gadgets or tech news, videogames, martial arts, and random seduction or sex tips.

Ike Mao (Olin) replied to Ken's poston March 6, 2008 at 10:19am
[Every women says they want a nice guy. They really only want them to be nice sometimes. And sometimes they want them to disobey there orders and dominate them. That's what i have learned.]

Contrary to popular belief, "women" are not all the same. It's all about reading people.

Ken Yeh (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) replied to Ike's poston March 6, 2008 at 10:20am
No...they are in this matter. I have yet to run into an American girl who wanted a puppy dog i'll comply to all your wishes man.

They want a mixture.

Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to Ken's poston March 6, 2008 at 10:32am
[Besides i've brought girls back from white worship before]
me too, but it takes work.

[It's deeper than white worship and self hate. ]

It's deeper, meaning it's two-sided. You have these Asian individuals either actively seeking out Whites and being aggressive about it, or who simply more easily accept propositions from Whites. Then on the flip side you have this constant objectification and fetishizing of Asian women in American tv, film, porn, fashion, etc pairing them with White males, inducing more White males to chase Asian women.

Ken Yeh (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) replied to Alvin's poston March 6, 2008 at 10:38am
I brought it back from just being myself not trying a bit. When a white washed girl sees you hitting on girls of all races etc and girls (not just asian) are kinda feeling you, it changes their perception. See tho, alot of girls think i'm white washed.

I think also Environment dictates a lot of what you are attracted to. I was more attracted to white/latina women. WHy???? my town i grew up with my later years was all white. latina cuz my first gf was latina/filipina but more latina.

Brittany Houston (Georgia State) replied to Ken's poston March 6, 2008 at 10:41am
So there are many factors, and white worship is one of them. I think you're stuck at the phrase white worship, not politically correct enough for you? How about internalized eurocentric standards of beauty and attractiveness.

Brittany Houston (Georgia State) wroteon March 6, 2008 at 10:44am
I dont see how anyone can disagree with a sociological perspective that explains the impact the media has on sexual attraction and preferences.

Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon March 6, 2008 at 10:50am
What I like most about Ken, which is his most telling trait, is he's been here for over one year and still argues against mass media induced White worship or self hate.
Gotta love and appreciate the stubborn-ness, he gives people something to argue about, even though it's like talking to a brick wall =D

Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to Ike's poston March 6, 2008 at 11:28am
ike i dunno... i don't want it to become another f44 where people immediately snap and don't try to explain things or debate with newcomers just because it's been done many times before.
while those totally ignorant should first be pointed to the master introductory thread, for those who still aren't convinced, why make it taboo to talk about it?

Ike Mao (Olin) replied to Alvin's poston March 6, 2008 at 11:36am
Because it annoys the hell out of the rest of us and prevents the group as a whole from moving forward in understanding or action. Ever wonder why it's almost an entirely new crowd every few months or so?

N00bs come in, learn about the issues, argue, re-examine their behaviors, become pumped up to do something, realize that posting on a Facebook group isn't real activism, and leave. Good for them, good for activism, good for AAs, but it keeps this group very entry-level.

Real activists complain about internet groups because we don't do anything. I would like to step up our game and show that the internet is a great way to reach a lot of people. Also, the f44s are different from us in that they never claimed to be an activist site.

Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to Ike's poston March 6, 2008 at 11:51am
[N00bs come in, learn about the issues, argue, re-examine their behaviors, become pumped up to do something, realize that posting on a Facebook group isn't real activism, and leave. Good for them, good for activism, good for AAs, but it keeps this group very entry-level.]

well the problem is, what is the ultimate purpose of this place, is it to educate, or do something else? and what do you propose the 'something else' is?

[prevents the group as a whole from moving forward in understanding or action]

moving forward to what, what kind of action?

Vinh Hua (New School) wroteon March 6, 2008 at 11:56am
... this i want to hear, as it speaks to whether i'll remain with this group or not. and if i should send people to this group.

Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon March 6, 2008 at 12:04pm
while i want this place to become a place for action and collaborations and some meaningful change, i don't think it's wise to say 'okay we're going with who we've got and anyone new doesn't get the chance to learn just like we did'.

Ike Mao (Olin) replied to Alvin's poston March 6, 2008 at 12:27pm
Let me preface this by saying: I really want my muse because I suck at articulating thoughts, but he's off in class or writing a paper or some real-life important nonsense like that! /sigh... =(

Alvin, this being your group, the purpose is up to you, I can just say a few directions in which I would like to see this group go.

Some things that I like currently: the thread about making an AA media fund (which coincidentally I'm doing a self-study on this semester, but haven't gotten around to posting about it in the thread), the mass purchase of an AA movie, promotion of AA events, the list of AA artists to support, the "shit list", pretty much anything that shows we will take what we have discussed and our self-actualization and DO SOMETHING with it.

The internet can be very useful in organizing massive amounts of people to do very easy things, and ANBM can be very instrumental in promoting things on Facebook. I would like to see us work with more artists, activists, bloggers, etc to both promote them and link multiple aspects of the AA community. I would also like to see more promotion of things we can do to help in terms of real-life activism and community work.

Finally, I'd like to carve out a niche for people who understand certain issues, where we don't have to argue about the "basics". Perhaps there could be a few highly moderated threads. The "empathy" thread was my attempt at it, and obviously sort of a failure because I didn't go through and delete posts that weren't on the same level, but I think it can be done, and I'm willing to put in the effort of moderating those threads.

[while i want this place to become a place for action and collaborations and some meaningful change, i don't think it's wise to say 'okay we're going with who we've got and anyone new doesn't get the chance to learn just like we did'.]

To clarify, I don't want to make newbies feel unwelcome. We were all newbies once. There do need to be some threads where we can sit around and argue about the basics and have existential crises, whining, and flame wars. I'm just proposing extending the scope of this group to people with more understanding, as well as providing more of a springboard into real-life activism.

Alvin Lin (MIT) replied to Ike's poston March 6, 2008 at 12:48pm
ike i like all of those suggestions, and i think we should start moving more towards those type of active projects you listed while at the same time not leaving any newbies behind. so, the focus can be more on what you just suggested, but at the same time i don't see why any of the major threads can't be brought up by various people, if there is something worth adding or discussing.

ken, this is my theory about you. you are more whitewashed than others, kind of like my upbringing, and you said you used to play hockey. you're kind of like d ortmann in this respect where you guys fit in well with the dominant white culture, which i can relate to as well. furthermore, based on your facebook photos that i just looked at real quick, i think you're an above average looking asian kid. so...my theory about you, is that while you fit in better because you are essentially an athletic, above average looking twinkie, you are still losing 'points' for your asian face. i bet if i hung out with you i would notice the girls you are pulling aren't at the same attractiveness level that you would be getting if you were any other race but asian.
for example, i've noticed this among a few asian male friends or aquaintances of mine who married or are engaged to white women, these guys are a combination of good looking or smart or charismatic or wealthy, and their fiances or wives aren't as attractive as they are, in my opinion.
another example: have any of you ever seen a picture of parry shen's wife.

Ike Mao (Olin) replied to Alvin's poston March 6, 2008 at 12:50pm
[but at the same time i don't see why any of the major threads can't be brought up by various people, if there is something worth adding or discussing.]

Yeah, I retracted that point in favor if creating a few highly-moderated higher-level threads for people who are sick of rehashing the same old stuff. =)

Glad you're game, though!

Ike Mao (Olin) replied to Vinh's poston March 6, 2008 at 12:52pm
I think it would improve this group greatly if you sent some activist friends over. At the very least, I would appreciate it. I would even create and moderate special higher-level threads so they don't have to deal with people who don't accept the basics. =)

Alvin Lin (MIT) wroteon March 6, 2008 at 8:40pm
this is my reply to chris in another thread:
----
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2214375888&topic=6661

[Chris, I agree that physical looks in a guy is less important than it is for women to look good (however unfortunate it is right now). Wealth or confidence or social status/prestige or how you make her experience emotions are much more important for male attractiveness.

That being said, mass media plays a huge role in conditioning many men's confidence, as well as social status/prestige.
A White guy is more confident approaching Asian women because he constantly sees those pairs in media, and from real life experience, has found more Asian women are open to his advances (because some or many of them have been conditioned with internalized White worship). Asian men on average are less confident because we are made to feel foreign, as outsiders, and are demeaned.
Additionally, we've already rehashed the mass media branding of White men as the most attractive status symbols, which does influence some or many women, whereas Asian guy's crappy branding can lower the self confidence of some or many while also influencing women too.

So... in my opinion mass media influence still is a big deal when it comes to attraction. Using your own initially posted factors, how can you say that confidence and social value aren't influenced by mass media?

Additionally, I thought this over from various angles... there's no other way to explain why social rejects or unattractive White dorks can be losers in their home nations yet become sex players in Asia, and why there are way too many disproportionately attractive af/wm pairs these days.]